trashmod: (Default)
garbage all the way down ([personal profile] trashmod) wrote in [community profile] hydratrashmeme2014-11-15 10:27 am

Chatter post

For all your discussion needs.

Ground rules:
- Try to keep it loosely trash party related, or at least Cap fandom related.
- Disagreement is fine, nastiness is not.
- Being offended is not carte blanche for nastiness.
- Trashmeme ground rules apply. Read at your own risk, no romanticizing your noncon garbage, no wank about the moral acceptability of noncon kink.
- Body shots, sniper shots, and tetanus shots are all available at the open bar. Party like it's 2014, kids.

Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 04:32 pm (UTC)(link)
What garbage do you just keep coming back to again and again?

Me, I'm partial to that "Rumlow gets gang-raped by his teammates" fill and... pretty much all of justanotherStonyfan's trashfic on AO3, which isn't in the main "HYDRA trash party" tag and therefore lurks, shiny and unexpected, in dark corners of the trash meme and the pairing tags. More recently, hrngh, that 5+1 Steve fantasies fill really did it for me.

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Blood from a Stone. Oh God. Blood from a Stone. And the trashy dirty talk one.

And that one where Bucky talks dirty about Steve sharing him with the Avengers and Steve loses his boner...that one was pretty much the original source of the Steve fantasy 5+1 fic. (Hi, I'm glad you liked it.)

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Anything with watersports/desperation.

It wasn't my kink before, but there's something about Bucky being robbed of his autonomy to the point that whether he can/can't do something as ordinary as empty his bladder is at the mercy of his handlers' whims.

I'm a rotten sod.

I'm also quite partial to fics where Bucky's mouth or arse is used for impromptu bathroom breaks by Rumlow/Pierce/STRIKE. I'm going to hell for that, 'cause what I find interesting is the thing where Bucky's body automatically submits, while his mind is clearly running through all the OH GOD WHY options.

Okay, so let's talk HYDRA Won AUs

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
You all seem like people who have thought a fair bit about HYDRA. I've been thinking a lot about AUs where HYDRA won, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Variation #1: HYDRA Won in 1945

Steve never gets the serum, or Steve goes off the train too, or Steve doesn't manage to get on the Valkyrie, or whatever, and New York gets flattened. Possibly all of the eastern seaboard. Possibly also the capitals of Europe. What then? Schmidt doesn't have the manpower or organization to take over directly, but I imagine that plenty of places would be happy to pull a Vichy to avoid the wrath of HYDRA.

Variation #2: Project Insight Succeeds

What happens then? (On a geopolitical scale. What happens to surviving supersoldiers is clearly nothing but trash parties.)

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 07:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I love pretty much anything with an oblivious Winter Soldier who assumes the things happening to him must serve some necessary higher purpose. That Non-Critical Malfunction fill was just golden.

RP

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Do people RP Hydra trash scenarios? I asked in an earlier thread but nothing came of it, but I have been totally gagging to collaborate with somebody who shares my awful, degrading vision.

Re: RP

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I've never done anything like this, but if you decide to do a more-than-two-people scenario, please count me in!
anon1

Real Life

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm guessing many of us have a fascination with power dynamics, so may I ask if any of you act that out in the real world, BDSM or otherwise?

Kinks I didn't know I had

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Inspired by a comment above: I sometimes find myself reading a fic and thinking Aw shit that's hot, even if I never even considered something my kink before.

So what are the things you discovered lately?

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-15 11:45 pm (UTC)(link)
And that one where Bucky talks dirty about Steve sharing him with the Avengers and Steve loses his boner...that one was pretty much the original source of the Steve fantasy 5+1 fic.

New anon here: Muahah now that's wonderful, because I wrote that one and I was also the nonnie who prompted the rape fantasy scenario. And, needless to say, you wrote something more brilliant than I could have ever wished for and it's definitely one of the fics I'll keep returning to for a long time.

Circle closed, I love you.

Russian translation

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
I figure this is a good place to offer to translate English trash into Russian мусор for anyone interested in adding a little authenticity to their Cold War-era trash fills.

Re: Russian translation

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 12:24 am (UTC)(link)
That's amazing! Google translate always sucks but I think Russian is espescially hard.

Can offer German translation btw!

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
I LOVE YOU TOO, OH MY GOD. I guess there's a certain "unbelievably aroused by incredible degradation" commonality to the whole thing. Er, any other ideas?
slybrarian: Two wings raised over the stargate symbol. (ME Renegade)

Re: Okay, so let's talk HYDRA Won AUs

[personal profile] slybrarian 2014-11-16 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
Variation #2 depends a lot on which version of success happens. Let's call them Plan A (no one knows anything is wrong beforehand) and Plan B (what happens in the movie).

In Plan A, the three helicarriers were meant to be fully deployed and operational before the switch was thrown. I imagine that SHIELD would have deployed them in three locations: North America, probably over the midwest, Europe around Germany or so, and East Asia, maybe around Korea. This gives them coverage to 'protect' the main industrial and economic centers of the world, and be reasonably placed to move elsewhere if aliens attack India or Australia or whatever. This also means the initial attack wipes out all government and military leadership of the advanced countries in the opening minutes, prioritizing those in a position to counterattack like Tony Stark, missile defense centers, and people on the SHIELD Gifted list, as well as those who you need to kill with no warning like Banner or, presumably, Stephen Strange. Pierce also likely uses Insight to kills any members of HYDRA he finds inconvenient, because he does not need weirdos like Strucker running around his nice, orderly planet. The carriers will then start moving to attack places that were not in range, like the west coast of North America and India and so forth. South Africa dies last. My guess is Pierce had a plan to blame all this on aliens or the WSC, take over "for the duration of the emergency" and then never actually relinquish power. He may or may not keep the helicarriers around. I think he would ground them unless necessary, because he doesn't want to risk them being turned against him, and instead rely on kill teams or the asset to take out any trouble makers who pop up on the algorithm's radar.

(For those interested, it takes a little under five days for Insight to kill 20 million people, and that's assuming they are all in range and in suitable density, so it should take a bit longer to enact Plan A than that. I guess those carriers are nothing but bullets inside. Or maybe those special guns are lasers. Pew pew!)

Plan B is much messier. The initial targets we see are 700,000 people on the eastern seaboard of the US, with New York the furthest place from DC seen. I would say that means anyone between NY or Boston and, say, Atlanta at most, with the Appalachians blocking shots west until they reach at least 50,000 feet or so. Anyways, even at 1000+ people per minute per carrier, that means it takes about 233 minutes / 3.8 hours to kill everyone in range. On the one hand, that's pretty slow. On the other hand, the first people to die are people like Tony and Rhodey, who can directly attack the carriers, and the president and various people we saw at the Pentagon who can order air defenses to engage. I imagine any non-HYDRA pilots at the nearest airbases are also toast. From there it's mostly a matter of working through the list of potential malcontents, while spreading out to attack the rest of the world. The problem of course is that at this point everyone knows some serious shit is going down and the rest of the planet has time to try to mount a defense. That will be difficult given the incredible cruising altitude of the carriers and the apparent range of their weapons, but that's what SM-3 missiles and nuclear air-defense missiles are for. (You can't tell me the Russians didn't put those back to full operational status the minute after the Chitauri attacked.) Also people will have time to realize how the carriers are targeting them and ditch anything that might be used for tracking. HYDRA's cleanup is much messier and it is obvious who is responsible, breeding massive resentment from the start and meaning more people must die. It also means that various gifted individuals have more time to respond, meaning you are more likely to have an angry Hulk or Thor ruining the day and/or busting into your victory gangbangs at the most inconvenient moment. In fact, Thor is a wildcard period because AFAIK no one knows he is actually hanging around on Earth.

Re: Real Life

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 03:49 am (UTC)(link)
Only online. There's so many lovely young men who like to be degraded and dominated. I'm happy to oblig them.

Re: Kinks I didn't know I had

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
Hand feeding. Jesus Christ Rumlow.

Why does HYDRA host trash parties?

[personal profile] writingcyan 2014-11-16 04:56 am (UTC)(link)
Why do you think HYDRA hosts trash parties in the first place? Obviously they're Bad Guys and rape parties are a Bad-Guy thing to do, and on a meta level we make them do it to indulge our own twisted fantasies, but if we were to analyse their motives rather than our own, if we asked them what thoughts go through their minds when they order the Asset down on his knees, how do you think they'd justify it?

Personally, depending on the story I'm writing, I consider trash parties either the result of Philip Zimbardo's "Lucifer Effect" or a deliberately introduced part of HYDRA's indoctrination process.

The Lucifer Effect is a hypothesis developed by Philip Zimbardo, the psychologist behind the Stanford Prison Experiment, which proposes that evil is the exercise of power, power is in the system, and the system creates the situation that corrupts the individual - to paraphrase, (almost) everyone would find themselves committing acts of unspeakable cruelty if they had power over others and no accountability. This is particularly predominant in the military and police forces (see: Abu Ghraib, US prisons, even Ferguson) because they conform to
the seven social processes that grease the slippery slope of evil: Mindlessly taking the first small step. Dehumanization of others. De-individuation of Self. Diffusion of personal responsibility. Blind obedience to authority. Uncritical conformity to group norms. Passive tolerance to evil through inaction or indifference.
- Philip Zimbardo: TED - The Psychology of Evil (http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil/transcript?language=en)
Obviously, HYDRA fits the bill pretty well, being a para-military organisation. In this case, the first HYDRA trash party would have been a spontaneous event - here's someone (the Asset) over whom we have absolute power, they can't resist or refuse, and no one will ever find out - but as dehumanisation of the victim(s) progressed and no one was held responsible or spoke up in protest, the abuse would become less furtive until it's just another part of everyday life at the office, institutionalised abuse that everybody accepts because everyone else is doing it too (think: KZ camp personnel - an apt comparison considering HYDRA's history).

My other headcanon is that HYDRA trash parties were deliberately introduced as part initiation ritual, part priming for subsequent HYDRA indoctrination. In this case, the Winter Soldier wouldn't be the only party favour; all prospective HYDRA aspirants would have to take a turn to prove their worth. Break someone down, praise them for their ability to survive it, teach them that pain is order, pain is strength, and then let them abuse others in turn. And the Winter Soldier, paradoxically superpowered and completely robbed of autonomy, is of course the ultimate embodiment of this process, the perfect victim and the perfect soldier. (Anon wrote a beautiful fill on this subject, "Order," about Rumlow's gang-rape initiation: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1879413)

Either way, once the trash parties are happening, it only makes sense for the HYDRA brass to allow, even encourage, them to continue. According to military psychologist Dave Grossman, nothing cements loyalty like the shared committing of atrocity:
Those who command atrocities are powerfully bonded by blood and guilt to those who commit atrocities, and to their cause, since only the success of their cause can ensure that they will not have to answer for their actions. ... By ensuring that their men participate in atrocities, totalitarian leaders can also ensure that for these minions there is no possibility of reconciliation with the enemy. They are inextricably linked to the fate of their leader. Trapped in their logic and their guilt, those who commit atrocities see no alternatives other than total victory or total defeat.
- Dave Grossman, "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society."
Or to paraphrase again, members of HYDRA can't turn against HYDRA after committing HYDRA-sanctioned rape. Anon wrote a fantastic fill illustrating this point, "Let Him Be Wicked Still" (http://archiveofourown.org/works/2502503), in which Rumlow declines using the Asset as his "reward" until Pierce finds out and forces him to, but anon never touched on the reason why Pierce was so hell-bent on it happening. This is why: to ensure Rumlow's loyalty to HYDRA. Up until this point, Rumlow could have betrayed HYDRA to S.H.I.E.L.D. with only minor personal consequences, making him a significant security risk to HYDRA considering that he's working so closely with charismatic Steve Rogers who tends to inspire ridiculous loyalty and righteousness in others, but after raping Steve's best friend there's no turning back for Rumlow; HYDRA's fate is his fate.

I could go on about this, but I'm curious to know what you all think!

Re: Real Life

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
*chinhands*

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 05:39 am (UTC)(link)
The one where Rollins talks the WS through masturbating. Something about the way the WS keeps hesitating and being afraid of the build up just, like, undoes me.

Re: Real Life

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 05:50 am (UTC)(link)
exactly my response.

I'm way too much of a wienie to do it myself.

Re: Why does HYDRA host trash parties?

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 11:46 am (UTC)(link)
Your comment is beautiful and thoughtful and these ideas will probably root themselves in my brain and the brains of others and show up again in prompts and fics, but to answer your question of why...

Grillo and Stan.

Seriously if it was Jeff Daniels and Ryan Reynolds this place would be as abandoned as Six Flags New Orleans.

Re: Kinks I didn't know I had

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
(I think I'm the aforementioned Above Anon.)

I wandered into this dumpster looking for non-specific Bucky torture porn and only had a couple of fireproofs (crossdressing, smoking, double-dubcon).

Six months later... Watersports/desperation, enemas, pseudo-necrophilia, tentacles, daddy kink, demeaning/offensive dirty talk, gun play, knife play, pervertibles/object insertion, blood, cum eating, body modification, electrocution, bestiality, psychological torture (e.g. manipulation, coercion, conditioning), CBT/genital torture, piercings, food issues, collaring and pet play.

I think I might be one of the dumpster's trash success stories.

Re: Why does HYDRA host trash parties?

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
"Grillo and Stan"

Exactly.

I feel mankind has reached a new height of sexiness and perfection with these two individuals. Doesn't help that Stan looks like a killer drowned kitten in this movie, and Rumlow looks like a sleek predator. I mean, what's not to like.

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 02:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Dangerous unpredictable asset, the other operatives still can't resist him

This one was fantastic, and I had prompted it btw, so I was the happiest person in the dumpster.

I also had other prompts filled, and they were some of the best things I've read in here, lucky me. :D I gotta say though, quality is pretty high in here. I'm on board only with a certain type of fic, so I don't enjoy everything, but I can tell the writing is pretty good.

Re: Dumpster faves

(Anonymous) 2014-11-16 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
This one was FANTASTIC... I'm still hopefully waiting for a sequel where Rumlow gets to have some fun too.