hydratrashmeme | Chatter post

Chatter post

For all your discussion needs.

Ground rules:
- Try to keep it loosely trash party related, or at least Cap fandom related.
- Disagreement is fine, nastiness is not.
- Being offended is not carte blanche for nastiness.
- Trashmeme ground rules apply. Read at your own risk, no romanticizing your noncon garbage, no wank about the moral acceptability of noncon kink.
- Body shots, sniper shots, and tetanus shots are all available at the open bar. Party like it's 2014, kids.

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*sniff sniff* Mmm, gotta love the smell of bait in the morning. Found anything that'll look bad out of context yet, or are you gonna keep fishing?

But while we're doing straight-faced, earnest questions about each other's deep psychological motivations for activities the asker can barely conceal their contempt for: why do you assume that a focus on sexual violence means we all think it's the worst thing that could happen to a character?

And why have you dichotomized the issue of kink to the point of reading the numerous, impassioned testaments to what people get out of HTP besides kink as denials that there is a kink component? Not for everyone, as several nonnies have stated above, but hey guess what: it's possible to get valuable insights or reassurance or catharsis or whatever out of something that also gets you off. It's even possible to get off on something that helps you work through your rape trauma. I've seen antis so fundamentally unable to wrap their heads around the "both at once" concept that they tried to use "you've admitted to getting off to rape fantasies" as a refutation of "this has been an integral part of my healing process." Or at the very least read "this has been an integral part of my healing process" as "my interest in it is Pure and untouched by sexual gratification," and thus something that could be refuted by the exact type of admission of sexual gratification you're fishing for here.

And I'm genuinely curious--why? Why have all the responses to the constant accusations of "you're only into it to jack off" registered to you as denials that any jacking off is involved at all? Since you're making an effort to tamp down your rhetoric, convince us you're not a troll, and even pay lip service to the ideas about kink/harm/tagging/etc that you then try to undermine with leading questions, I'm going to assume that this is a genuine psychological blind spot rather than a deliberate "have you stopped beating your wife?" type question. So what's up with that? Is it about sexuality being incompatible with serious issues, and cheapening anything it touches into mere fetishization, even the fallout from the intersection between sexuality and violence? A need to separate "people who respect the seriousness of this subject" from "people who treat it in a way I find disrespectful and distasteful," to the point that anyone claiming a legitimate seat at the table in Group #1 sounds like they're implicitly denying any activities that'd qualify them for Group #2? Why are you so interested in whether we feel dirty for enjoying something you can barely conceal your distaste for, and in the course of trying to suss out the problematic motivations for our problematic kinks, did it occur to you to examine your own thinking for internalized Madonna-whore issues?

Just curious. While we're having a civilized conversation and all.

I mean yeah, this is a good point to make too. I've been getting off on what I now recognise are rape fantasies since I was four years old, and I get off on uncomplicated exploitative rapefic as much as the next trashbaby. But I've also prompted and filled multiple fic(let)s here that were explicitly intended to challenge and unpick myths and boundaries and complications of consent. And the reason I've been able to do that here is because as a community centred around fictional depictions of sexual violence, the trashmeme is by necessity openly, actively and explicitly consent-aware. Even when we're getting off on rapefic.

Perhaps more importantly though, even when Serious Consent Questions are not the focus of something I'm writing - even when I'm writing pure trashy PWP - I'm still bringing my understanding and experience of rape culture and its effects to my work because, well, all that baggage is an integral part of how I relate to the entire topic of sexual violence.

None of us is writing trashporn in a vacuum. One of the trash party's all-time classic gangbang rapefics, Blood from a Stone, also brought us the most powerfully political fic I've ever read in this fandom, The Interests of National Security. The former is 12k of brutal noncon Steve whump. The latter is an entirely non-sexual but deeply powerful juxtaposition of that violation with the routine violations of privacy and bodily autonomy we've come to accept as normal for the sake of Stopping The Terrorists. They're written by the same author, and (implicitly) set in the same universe.

So as above: This isn't an either/or situation. Yeah, many of us get off on rapefic. But we don't - can't - separate our interaction with noncon in fic from our lived experiences of rape culture and sexual violence. Sometimes those experiences just manifest as background noise which informs how we write characters. Sometimes they play more explicit roles in the story. Sometimes navigating them is the entire point of the story. None of those things is mutually exclusive with getting off on the noncon content of the story.

(OP) Thank you for your comment.

(OP) Not bait. Also not sure why you want me to identify myself when we're all anonymous on here. I'm not shaming anyone for liking it either. I read and write dark fic of all kinds and was only asking because it sometimes reads as people trying to pose excuses for what they like. They can like what they like without feeling bad. No one is doing any of that in this thread, but I have seen it elsewhere where people have been made to feel guilty to the point where they don't want to write or read these kinds of fic either when they shouldn't feel bad at all.

Not understanding your whole tone to my post either.

(OP) Not you really wanting me to reveal myself but the poster in the comment branch underneath this.

DA: The suspicion about your post is probably because it reads an awful lot like an anti "gotcha" argument with the conditionals filed off:

"If it's a harmless kink and if the only harm done is by people unwittingly reading it, which hardly ever happens since there's tagging, why not embrace your rape fetish? Do some not want to admit it's a kink because they [know] it makes them [bad]?"

Not sure what you mean. My words didn't have those ifs in them?

That's what the commenter meant by "with the conditionals [ifs] filed off."

We frequently get trolling that looks exactly like your question, just with those 'ifs'. (It's pretty easy to avoid if you're not on, say, Tumblr, but it happens a lot.) Thus, you show up with a question that's straight out of the anti-HTP playbook...we're maybe a little gun-shy.

AYRT: I added the "ifs" in to demonstrate that your comments are identical to the ways many antis present their arguments, just with the conditionals removed. That may not have been what you intended, but it's how they read, especially alongside comments like "Just admit you enjoy characters being put through trauma." Antis regularly make that line into an accusation, and equate it with "Just admit you like it when people suffer (which makes you terrible)."

Not an accusation, just explaining why people familiar with the anti toolbox may be suspicious of your intentions.

(OP) I feel the gotcha is on me to prove I don't belong here and I guess I don't for asking stupid questions.

DA

This is such a hostile, defensive answer given that you're the one coming in here asking loaded and intrusive questions. We're allowed to be cautious - it's your job to prove that you're sincere, not our job to blindly trust you.

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Re: Seriously curious - not trolling

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