Chatter post

[trashmod]

For all your discussion needs.

Ground rules:
- Try to keep it loosely trash party related, or at least Cap fandom related.
- Disagreement is fine, nastiness is not.
- Being offended is not carte blanche for nastiness.
- Trashmeme ground rules apply. Read at your own risk, no romanticizing your noncon garbage, no wank about the moral acceptability of noncon kink.
- Body shots, sniper shots, and tetanus shots are all available at the open bar. Party like it's 2014, kids.

Comments

Dumpster faves

[(Anonymous)]

What garbage do you just keep coming back to again and again?

Me, I'm partial to that "Rumlow gets gang-raped by his teammates" fill and... pretty much all of justanotherStonyfan's trashfic on AO3, which isn't in the main "HYDRA trash party" tag and therefore lurks, shiny and unexpected, in dark corners of the trash meme and the pairing tags. More recently, hrngh, that 5+1 Steve fantasies fill really did it for me.

Re: Dumpster faves

[(Anonymous)]

Blood from a Stone. Oh God. Blood from a Stone. And the trashy dirty talk one.

And that one where Bucky talks dirty about Steve sharing him with the Avengers and Steve loses his boner...that one was pretty much the original source of the Steve fantasy 5+1 fic. (Hi, I'm glad you liked it.)

Okay, so let's talk HYDRA Won AUs

[(Anonymous)]

You all seem like people who have thought a fair bit about HYDRA. I've been thinking a lot about AUs where HYDRA won, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Variation #1: HYDRA Won in 1945

Steve never gets the serum, or Steve goes off the train too, or Steve doesn't manage to get on the Valkyrie, or whatever, and New York gets flattened. Possibly all of the eastern seaboard. Possibly also the capitals of Europe. What then? Schmidt doesn't have the manpower or organization to take over directly, but I imagine that plenty of places would be happy to pull a Vichy to avoid the wrath of HYDRA.

Variation #2: Project Insight Succeeds

What happens then? (On a geopolitical scale. What happens to surviving supersoldiers is clearly nothing but trash parties.)

Re: Okay, so let's talk HYDRA Won AUs

[slybrarian]

Variation #2 depends a lot on which version of success happens. Let's call them Plan A (no one knows anything is wrong beforehand) and Plan B (what happens in the movie).

In Plan A, the three helicarriers were meant to be fully deployed and operational before the switch was thrown. I imagine that SHIELD would have deployed them in three locations: North America, probably over the midwest, Europe around Germany or so, and East Asia, maybe around Korea. This gives them coverage to 'protect' the main industrial and economic centers of the world, and be reasonably placed to move elsewhere if aliens attack India or Australia or whatever. This also means the initial attack wipes out all government and military leadership of the advanced countries in the opening minutes, prioritizing those in a position to counterattack like Tony Stark, missile defense centers, and people on the SHIELD Gifted list, as well as those who you need to kill with no warning like Banner or, presumably, Stephen Strange. Pierce also likely uses Insight to kills any members of HYDRA he finds inconvenient, because he does not need weirdos like Strucker running around his nice, orderly planet. The carriers will then start moving to attack places that were not in range, like the west coast of North America and India and so forth. South Africa dies last. My guess is Pierce had a plan to blame all this on aliens or the WSC, take over "for the duration of the emergency" and then never actually relinquish power. He may or may not keep the helicarriers around. I think he would ground them unless necessary, because he doesn't want to risk them being turned against him, and instead rely on kill teams or the asset to take out any trouble makers who pop up on the algorithm's radar.

(For those interested, it takes a little under five days for Insight to kill 20 million people, and that's assuming they are all in range and in suitable density, so it should take a bit longer to enact Plan A than that. I guess those carriers are nothing but bullets inside. Or maybe those special guns are lasers. Pew pew!)

Plan B is much messier. The initial targets we see are 700,000 people on the eastern seaboard of the US, with New York the furthest place from DC seen. I would say that means anyone between NY or Boston and, say, Atlanta at most, with the Appalachians blocking shots west until they reach at least 50,000 feet or so. Anyways, even at 1000+ people per minute per carrier, that means it takes about 233 minutes / 3.8 hours to kill everyone in range. On the one hand, that's pretty slow. On the other hand, the first people to die are people like Tony and Rhodey, who can directly attack the carriers, and the president and various people we saw at the Pentagon who can order air defenses to engage. I imagine any non-HYDRA pilots at the nearest airbases are also toast. From there it's mostly a matter of working through the list of potential malcontents, while spreading out to attack the rest of the world. The problem of course is that at this point everyone knows some serious shit is going down and the rest of the planet has time to try to mount a defense. That will be difficult given the incredible cruising altitude of the carriers and the apparent range of their weapons, but that's what SM-3 missiles and nuclear air-defense missiles are for. (You can't tell me the Russians didn't put those back to full operational status the minute after the Chitauri attacked.) Also people will have time to realize how the carriers are targeting them and ditch anything that might be used for tracking. HYDRA's cleanup is much messier and it is obvious who is responsible, breeding massive resentment from the start and meaning more people must die. It also means that various gifted individuals have more time to respond, meaning you are more likely to have an angry Hulk or Thor ruining the day and/or busting into your victory gangbangs at the most inconvenient moment. In fact, Thor is a wildcard period because AFAIK no one knows he is actually hanging around on Earth.

RP

[(Anonymous)]

Do people RP Hydra trash scenarios? I asked in an earlier thread but nothing came of it, but I have been totally gagging to collaborate with somebody who shares my awful, degrading vision.

Re: RP

[(Anonymous)]

I've never done anything like this, but if you decide to do a more-than-two-people scenario, please count me in!
anon1

Real Life

[(Anonymous)]

I'm guessing many of us have a fascination with power dynamics, so may I ask if any of you act that out in the real world, BDSM or otherwise?

Re: Real Life

[(Anonymous)]

Only online. There's so many lovely young men who like to be degraded and dominated. I'm happy to oblig them.

Kinks I didn't know I had

[(Anonymous)]

Inspired by a comment above: I sometimes find myself reading a fic and thinking Aw shit that's hot, even if I never even considered something my kink before.

So what are the things you discovered lately?

Re: Kinks I didn't know I had

[(Anonymous)]

Hand feeding. Jesus Christ Rumlow.

Russian translation

[(Anonymous)]

I figure this is a good place to offer to translate English trash into Russian мусор for anyone interested in adding a little authenticity to their Cold War-era trash fills.

Re: Russian translation

[(Anonymous)]

That's amazing! Google translate always sucks but I think Russian is espescially hard.

Can offer German translation btw!

Why does HYDRA host trash parties?

[writingcyan]

Why do you think HYDRA hosts trash parties in the first place? Obviously they're Bad Guys and rape parties are a Bad-Guy thing to do, and on a meta level we make them do it to indulge our own twisted fantasies, but if we were to analyse their motives rather than our own, if we asked them what thoughts go through their minds when they order the Asset down on his knees, how do you think they'd justify it?

Personally, depending on the story I'm writing, I consider trash parties either the result of Philip Zimbardo's "Lucifer Effect" or a deliberately introduced part of HYDRA's indoctrination process.

The Lucifer Effect is a hypothesis developed by Philip Zimbardo, the psychologist behind the Stanford Prison Experiment, which proposes that evil is the exercise of power, power is in the system, and the system creates the situation that corrupts the individual - to paraphrase, (almost) everyone would find themselves committing acts of unspeakable cruelty if they had power over others and no accountability. This is particularly predominant in the military and police forces (see: Abu Ghraib, US prisons, even Ferguson) because they conform to

the seven social processes that grease the slippery slope of evil: Mindlessly taking the first small step. Dehumanization of others. De-individuation of Self. Diffusion of personal responsibility. Blind obedience to authority. Uncritical conformity to group norms. Passive tolerance to evil through inaction or indifference.
- Philip Zimbardo: TED - The Psychology of Evil (http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil/transcript?language=en)

Obviously, HYDRA fits the bill pretty well, being a para-military organisation. In this case, the first HYDRA trash party would have been a spontaneous event - here's someone (the Asset) over whom we have absolute power, they can't resist or refuse, and no one will ever find out - but as dehumanisation of the victim(s) progressed and no one was held responsible or spoke up in protest, the abuse would become less furtive until it's just another part of everyday life at the office, institutionalised abuse that everybody accepts because everyone else is doing it too (think: KZ camp personnel - an apt comparison considering HYDRA's history).

My other headcanon is that HYDRA trash parties were deliberately introduced as part initiation ritual, part priming for subsequent HYDRA indoctrination. In this case, the Winter Soldier wouldn't be the only party favour; all prospective HYDRA aspirants would have to take a turn to prove their worth. Break someone down, praise them for their ability to survive it, teach them that pain is order, pain is strength, and then let them abuse others in turn. And the Winter Soldier, paradoxically superpowered and completely robbed of autonomy, is of course the ultimate embodiment of this process, the perfect victim and the perfect soldier. (Anon wrote a beautiful fill on this subject, "Order," about Rumlow's gang-rape initiation: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1879413)

Either way, once the trash parties are happening, it only makes sense for the HYDRA brass to allow, even encourage, them to continue. According to military psychologist Dave Grossman, nothing cements loyalty like the shared committing of atrocity:

Those who command atrocities are powerfully bonded by blood and guilt to those who commit atrocities, and to their cause, since only the success of their cause can ensure that they will not have to answer for their actions. ... By ensuring that their men participate in atrocities, totalitarian leaders can also ensure that for these minions there is no possibility of reconciliation with the enemy. They are inextricably linked to the fate of their leader. Trapped in their logic and their guilt, those who commit atrocities see no alternatives other than total victory or total defeat.
- Dave Grossman, "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society."

Or to paraphrase again, members of HYDRA can't turn against HYDRA after committing HYDRA-sanctioned rape. Anon wrote a fantastic fill illustrating this point, "Let Him Be Wicked Still" (http://archiveofourown.org/works/2502503), in which Rumlow declines using the Asset as his "reward" until Pierce finds out and forces him to, but anon never touched on the reason why Pierce was so hell-bent on it happening. This is why: to ensure Rumlow's loyalty to HYDRA. Up until this point, Rumlow could have betrayed HYDRA to S.H.I.E.L.D. with only minor personal consequences, making him a significant security risk to HYDRA considering that he's working so closely with charismatic Steve Rogers who tends to inspire ridiculous loyalty and righteousness in others, but after raping Steve's best friend there's no turning back for Rumlow; HYDRA's fate is his fate.

I could go on about this, but I'm curious to know what you all think!

Re: Why does HYDRA host trash parties?

[(Anonymous)]

Your comment is beautiful and thoughtful and these ideas will probably root themselves in my brain and the brains of others and show up again in prompts and fics, but to answer your question of why...

Grillo and Stan.

Seriously if it was Jeff Daniels and Ryan Reynolds this place would be as abandoned as Six Flags New Orleans.

Trash Turned Headcanon

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly what it says on the tin. What little bits of debris in fics have wormed their way inside your head and stuck there?

For me, it's asexual Jack Rollins. I will never be able to part with the idea of him as mildly confused and immensely done with his coworker's debauchery.

Also Brock Rumlow and Axe body spray.

Re: Trash Turned Headcanon

[(Anonymous)]

Seconding both so hard.

Also that thing (I think it's from Lauralot's Rumlow-week series?) where the undercover Hydra agents get a kick out of innocent stuff with a double meaning, like octopus-themed plushies, accessories, christmas sweaters and stuff.

YOU GUYS, Opinions on this?

[(Anonymous)]

"How would Zemo fit into the movie? Sources close to production tell me that not only is the Winter Soldier involved in Civil War, he's a central character in it. What if Zemo is, in some way, connected to The Winter Soldier's origin, and the newly-clear headed Bucky Barnes goes seeking revenge? Or if Zemo decides to get the Winter Soldier and use him towards his own ends? "

ALSO: http://badassdigest.com/2014/11/14/daniel-bruhl-joins-captain-america-civil-war/

I'm super excited now, even if nothing of this would ever come real. The potential for trash would be enormous... and Daniel B is simply one of the best actors ever.

I'm somehow already writing fic based on this pairing and I don't even know ANYTHING.

Re: YOU GUYS, Opinions on this?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh sorry, link to the first article: http://badassdigest.com/2014/11/16/bruhl-haha-who-is-the-villain-of-captain-america-civil-war/

Hydra Music

[(Anonymous)]

What songs do you associate with Rumlow, HYDRA, Hydra Husbands, Pierce/Bucky, Rumlow/Bucky and so on?

I’ve been listening to some Winterbones playlists and loving them.

Re: Hydra Music

[(Anonymous)]

For extra-awful horrific trashy stuff that doesn't so much get me off as make me D-face and want to wrap Bucky and/or Steve in a warm blanket:

Lipstick to Void- Mica Levi
Consummation- Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross
Oh Father- Sia

And for trashy-sad post-hydra, trying to heal from the awful things done to him/them stuff:

I should Live in Salt- The National
Wash.- Bon Iver
Giving Me a Chance- Gotye
Normal Song- Perfume Genius
Va, Vis et Deviens- Armand Armar
Suffering- The War on Drugs
Migraine & Guns for Hands- 21 Pilots (tw for references to suicide)
(etc etc I could go on...if anyone wants a playlist of songs that'll make them cry a lot while reading recovery fic, i'm your guy)

Also:
Higgs Boson Blues- Nick Cave

Bucky brainwashing and cyro tank concept art

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=110431

Something for my fellow trashbabies to enjoy. Can't deny some of these gave me ideas. ;)

Re: Bucky brainwashing and cyro tank concept art

[(Anonymous)]

*whistles* Mh, imagine hydra having different chair designs over the years.

Interesting Documentary for Recovery Fic

[(Anonymous)]

This is only sort of trash-adjacent, but if anyone is writing any trash fic that has recovery, or just plain recovery fic, this documentary called 'Free the Mind' is really interesting and about 'mindfulness' and focuses on kids with ADHD and soldiers with PTSD (here's where you can apply this to Bucky).

It's pretty interesting, and definitely something that could be used in fic, so I just thought I'd let y'all know!

hydra porn lookalikes

[(Anonymous)]

Is the meme generally aware of the existence of this tumblr? http://xxxhydra.tumblr.com/

Re: hydra porn lookalikes

[(Anonymous)]

*hyperventilating*

old prompts, new fills and uodates

[(Anonymous)]

I'm concerned atm that I'm missing out on fills... I'm probably doing this in the wrong way though. How do you keep up with ALL the prompts so that you don't miss out on new fills on old pages? Because I noticed almost noone seems to put the fills in the fills post...

I know this sounds stupid, but please accept from someone not very familiar with DW...

Re: old prompts, new fills and uodates

[(Anonymous)]

I signed up for a Dreamwidth account and tracked the main entries in the Hydratrashmeme blog. Whenever someone posts a reply to any post or reply on the kinkmeme I get a message in my Dreamwidth inbox, and then I simply delete the ones I'm not interested in.

The only change is that I have to remember to switch my posts to 'anonymous' when replying.

Just want to say "Hi!"

[(Anonymous)]

Guys, I just found this place and I don't think I will leave any time soon!
It is so liberating to live in the trash.
To do nasty things to fictional charakters gives me a sence of power, I guess?
(countinues to rub mashed potatoes in hair)

Re: Just want to say "Hi!"

[(Anonymous)]

Hi there! I'd give you a welcome kiss, but you know, the rotten teeth...

Beta/resource/Q&A thread

[tenlittlebullets]

Not sure how relevant this is, since half the fun of a kink meme (especially one for irredeemable garbage) is that there's less pressure to post something polished, but. Post here if you need a beta reader, want to offer your beta services, or have a trash-pile-relevant area of expertise you'd be willing to answer quick questions about.

I'm not great beta material, so the real reason I'm posting this thread is:

- I live in the Washington DC metro area and I'm up for answering questions about random setting details.
- I speak mediocre but passable German and near-fluent French. If you need phrases translated, I'm not perfect, but I'm 5000x more likely than Google Translate to produce something an actual human might say.
- Queer history is totally my jam. Early 20th century NYC isn't my specialty, but I'm midway through Chauncey's 'Gay New York' and therefore somewhat more reliable than playing Tumblr Telephone with your research questions.

Re: Beta/resource/Q&A thread

[(Anonymous)]

That's a great idea, thanks!

I speak native German, so I can translate and also pinpoint differences between Austrian, German and Swiss dialect and vocabulary. Should you care - Marvel doesn't. :)

[(Anonymous)]

So has anybody owned up to their trashmeme fics in public?

I'm thinking about owning up to at least one of mine, and the funny thing is that the only reason I'm hesitating is that I don't want to be known as THAT PERSON WHO WRITES ANGSTY FUCK-OR-DIE FIC FOR LITERALLY EVERY FANDOM SHE JOINS EVER.

But I kind of am that person, so IDK. Maybe I should just own it.

[(Anonymous)]

Heck, I post em here under my name! Unless yiu mean RL? Then, heeeell nom

Physical Damage

[(Anonymous)]

So obviously the Winter Soldier heals at an accelerated rate.

However, he can't heal from everything; we know he can't regrow limbs. And the accelerated recovery can be dangerous in its own way: bones setting improperly, skin healing over bullets, etc.

I was just wondering if my fellow trash people have any thoughts on the sort of physical damages Bucky might have from his time with HYDRA. If he suffers an injury repeatedly (say, rectal tearing from a trash party) every time he's out of cryo, is the damage more likely to linger and cause complications than a one-off injury would? Or can his body repair an area no matter how much and how often damage is inflicted?

Re: Physical Damage

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, but I always wondered why there's scar tissue around his shoulder - so obviously that's a thing that happens - but nowhere else.

best Winter Soldier voice

[(Anonymous)]

I'm trying to write something for which I want a really scarily badass/competent/with it Winter Soldier, but I'm having trouble getting the voice right. What are your favorite WS POV fics like that? Trash or not (though the thing I'm writing is trash!)

Chat?

[(Anonymous)]

Would any of you be interested in having a little chatroom-meetup once in a while? Not RPing, just oldschool chatting. :D

Re: Chat?

[(Anonymous)]

I'd be up for that :)

Shameful and rare kinks?

[(Anonymous)]

What are some Hydra trash-related kinks you have that you consider shameful or something you won't ever admit deanon, or have a kink that seems to be enjoyed by only you such as guro, vore, rare kinks etc?

I posted a Rumlow/WS navel torture prompt a while back. Don't know where this kink came from. I don't think I ever came across such a fic but I would be happy with even just a kiss or cum spilling into the navel. The other day I came across this post (tw for (fake) blood) http://abdominalfetish.tumblr.com/post/99625616588/gunshot-in-the-belly-button

And with the gloved hand belonging to Rumlow, I could easily imagine that was a Rumlow/WS scene playing out.

Re: Shameful and rare kinks?

[(Anonymous)]

lmao this meme has been indulging my age play kink far too much. always felt shameful abt that one the way i didn't abt anything else.

in regards to rare stuff? there's been some wound fucking and also like, that one steve's fantasies fic where he holds a used condom in his mouth? idk where the fuck that came from but damn

Kinks that can't be prompted

[(Anonymous)]

Anyone else have kinks that they desperately want to see tried out in this fandom but just. Cannot. Make. A trashy prompt. Out of them!?

Re: Kinks that can't be prompted

[(Anonymous)]

A specific kink of mine involves good!guy or reformed Rumlow because I love the idea of him being punished for being turned good, that it seems fucked up enough if you think of it, but sadly it isn't permitted and it makes me frustrated because this is the only place I could ever post something like this, lol.

Then, I've got many trashy kinks that I'd love paired with a loving relationship, there's no way I could find a way to prompt them without breaking the rules. :C

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, any other comic fans around that are kind of dying for comic tropes/events merged in with trash prompts?

I want lots more Sin and Red Skull in fics.

And Post Civil War stuff. So much Post Civil War stuff with Bucky that's so great and ripe for Hydra Trash fics. Especially in terms of Bucky after Steve dies. Possibly just because I'm super curious for headcanons as to how the MCU will deal with that (I need to have so many conversations about that because I'm not prepared but I am totally here for the angst). And how MCU Bucky is going to take it because so far, I'm assuming he's a lot less stable than comics Bucky.
And like in terms of trash, I kinda dig barely-healing Bucky having Steve die and then all the Hydra Party Favor trauma that had gotten better with Steve coming back.
Plus you get Rumlow gloating about killing Steve.
There's just so much joyous potential Bucky pain there.

Also part of me really digs Hydra getting hold of Cap!Bucky and assorted trash happening with that. .

Just. Comics have so much trash potential. Y'all need to read Cap Volume 5.

[(Anonymous)]

Any good AUs in the trashy spirit? Bonus points for genuinely sadistic, awful Rumlow.

[stereowire]

There's the one where he's an escort and Steve and Bucky are clients... which you've probably read. http://archiveofourown.org/works/2242188/chapters/4919343

[(Anonymous)]

I check the trash meme every morning like it's a daily newspaper.

[(Anonymous)]

*nods* An essential part of the morning routine.