Dumpster #5: We didn't start the trashfire

[trashmod]

Welcome to the latest, greatest, scummiest iteration of hydratrashmeme. Come on in and please check your sense of shame at the door.

Rules in brief: Don't be a jerk except to fictional characters. Warn if you want, but read at your own risk, because this is emphatically not a safe space. Link your fills on the fill post. Unprompted fills: make a prompt or a header comment and reply to it with the full text. Continuations of fills from earlier rounds: just make sure you link in both places.

What's on-topic: Filthy and perverted twists on all the quality whump served up by Cap: Winter Soldier. Noncon, aftermath, uncomfortably sexualized violence, mind control, inappropriate uses of Bucky Barnes' metal arm, bad guys doing dirtybadwrong things to your faves.
What's off-topic: a/b/o, D/s-verse, soulbonds, mundane AUs, shippy/romanticized noncon, MCU heroes repurposed into OOC or edgydark delivery vehicles for your fave's suffering. If you've got a prompt for one of those burning a hole in your brain, head on over to mcu_trash.

[Rules in full] [Round 1] [Round 2] [Round 3] [Round 4] [Fill post] [Chatter post] [hydratrashmeme Pinboard archive] [Round 5 in flat view (comments in non-threaded chronological order, most recent last)]

Comments

(frozen comment)

[trashmod]

To avoid clogging up an entire page of comments with HTP-optional interchangeable-trauma whump requests, further off-topic prompts on this page are going to get deleted without warning rather than frozen.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Hi trashmod, quick question re: all the frozen prompts. The rules regarding what's on topic end with 'bad guys doing dirtybadwrong things to your faves'. It doesn't really say that the dirtybadwrong has to be sexual. Idk it's just that stuff like forced cannibalism or non consensual body modification def falls under HYDRA trash, regardless of if there's explicit dick-in-ass-action requested in the prompt. Like are we to understand that trashy filthy dirty stuff is not allowed if sex isn't the main focus of the prompt but is pretty much implied?

(frozen comment)

[trashmod]

I'm unaware of any colloquial usage of "dirtybadwrong" within fandom that isn't sexual. If that wasn't obvious, then every single other phrase in the "What's on-topic" blurb is meant as a big clue that the connotation of "dirty" isn't "covered in mud" any more than "inappropriate uses of Bucky Barnes' metal arm" means "Bucky flipping someone the bird with his mechanical hand." If that and the repeated mod warnings over the past few weeks weren't a tipoff, I really don't know what to say. Except that an off-topic prompt with an incidental "AND I GUESS THERE WAS LOTS OF RAPE BECAUSE HYDRATRASHMEME HAS A DUMB RULE ABOUT WHAT IT'S THERE FOR" is still off-topic--even one that isn't a now-deleted verbatim reprompt of a frozen thread.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Um, mod, get off your high horse. You my not have liked that the prompt was reposted to explicitely include, but it included rape. Thus it holds by the rules. Other things are included happen, but the rape is there.

Just because you view it as sass that it was reposted doesn't mean it isn't in the rules.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

That's the impression I got, too. There have definitely been nonsexual prompts and fills that passed muster before if the main concept was still "Hydra does/did a number on x".

(frozen comment) Okay? Confused?

[(Anonymous)]

How is the spices as a rape defense not on topic? It is kinda the definition of our bailiwick. Bucky having horrible trash, horrible trash happening to others. Bucky comes up with a cunning plan to thwart future interactions...

It was trash mandatory in every regard.

(frozen comment) Re: Okay? Confused?

[trashmod]

It was also a passive-aggressive reprompt of a frozen thread with a few "INSERT OBLIGATORY NONCON HERE"s sprinkled into it, right below a mod warning about clogging up the meme.

(frozen comment) Delete old frozen threads too then?

[(Anonymous)]

Since they are able to be deleted, why not just remove them? They serve no purpose as frozen derelicts.

(frozen comment) Re: Delete old frozen threads too then?

[trashmod]

One would hope that being able to see which threads have been locked would help people grok what this place is and isn't about. It seems to be sorely needed right about now. So nothing wrong with a few scattered frozen threads left over as examples, but if the sheer volume of them continues, there's no point letting them drown out the on-topic prompts.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

damn mods, y'all literal af. apparently filth isn't filth if there aint 20 dicks in sight. let ppl have their fun and stop fucking with actual good quality/creative prompts that are trying to interpret Hydra trash differently and go beyond 'and they fucked a lot and it was bad. That's it. Thank u.' cuz we've read that one a lot.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I think trashmod is rightly trying to prevent reinterpretation of what this kink meme is all about. Trash is not the same as whump. Prompts need to be worded more carefully to belong in this dumpster. Some of these could be interpreted as belonging here, but they need to be clearer in their aims. This isn’t a general whump, hurt/comfort, or torture meme. Filthy in the rules means sexual here, not just with dirt and other bodily fluids. Lots of other kink memes have died. Let’s not dilute this one.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP, but personally I think that there's a difference between interpreting 'dirty' as 'covered in mud', as the mod suggested, and interpreting 'dirty' in a way many of the frozen prompts have done, i.e. unsanitary, disgusting, dehumanizing, traumatic, abusive etc. - characteristics which I believe definitely fit under both 'dirtybadwrong' and 'HYDRA trash' if used in relation to HYDRA'S treatment of the Winter Soldier.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

+100

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[(Anonymous)]

^^^^Agreed. I understand if the current ratio of whump-to-noncon prompts is one the mod isn't satisfied with, but maybe request a temporary hold on those instead of freezing the prompts that are already here?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. If the prompt focuses on your latter interpretation of ‘dirty’ - unsanitary, disgusting, abusive etc - that, to me, would be off topic, because the noncon - aka the main purpose of this meme - would be an optional extra. It’s only if that dirt had a specifically sexual nature, e.g come, that I would see that as being actually dirtybadwrong.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Is it me or are we fast becoming fandom wank sploogefest levels of redundant?
Can we just go ahead and make an mcu trashheap meme for these jokers to go play in and get out of our dumpsters?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Not to clog up the page any further, just wanted to say a quick thanks for keeping things on-topic. We appreciate you!!!

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Ditto! Sorry you've been given such a hard time today. Thank you for all you do, trashmod.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

+1

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't able to keep up with the discussion, but even though it's settled, I'd like to give my two cents: I got here because I watched CW and fell in love with Bucky, so I went back and rewatched TFA and TWS, and the bank scene just screamed rape to me. So I was glad to find this place where I could find people of a similar mind. However, although the main focus here has always been rape, I always took this space as a place that would push the boundaries of the films. Like, MCU Bucky was tortured in a "canon typical violence" way. Here we can have things like people using him as a urinal, or cutting off body parts for fun, or frying his brain until he can't function anymore. For me those things definitely fall into dirtybadwrong. There is a clear difference between "Bucky gets beat up a little" and "HYDRA starves Bucky so he eats himself".

There have been some prompts lately that clearly don't belong here, but there have also been prompts that weren't frozen in the past even though they weren’t specifically sexual (like the rape is implied, or mentioned in passing, or even fuckpotato prompts that focus on the potato part and not the fuck part). I know the trashmod might miss some posts, sometimes there are quite a lot, but I also think sometimes it can be a little confusing, specially for newcomers, if certain non-sexual prompts "pass" while others don't.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, that sums it up perfectly. Also, some of the nonsexual prompt fills have not only been allowed but became kind of the highlights of this place- I'm thinking of the brain damage fic brought earlier, and the second fill here (https://hydratrashmeme.dreamwidth.org/587.html?thread=1322571#cmt1322571).

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

+1

It seems to me that certain grey area/trash-adjacent prompts/fics have been okayed because they were the exception, not the rule. Recently, we've gotten a LOT of trash optional prompts all at once, so it kind of makes more sense to crack down now.

That being said, I've been here for years, and I was under the impression that torture, nonconsensual body modification, brainwashing etc were all on topic? Sure, rape/noncon is the central tenet of HTP, but I always thought institutional violence and general abuse was game, too. Maybe it's a question of volume, but I was a little surprised by a few of the prompts that got frozen.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

This is basically my experience too. Though I've been around since 2015, my experience has been that there have been many (and good!) fills that are definitely what I would classify as "dirtybadwrong", even though they haven't included rape. If you use a term like that in the rules, I don't think it's unexpected that you end up with people interpreting it differently. Bucky eating his own arm out of desperation is definitely darkfic, and up until now with the creation of the new comm, darkfic prompts hasn't really been encouraged elsewhere. So, well, to me there has been a lot of fic without rape that has felt like they belonged here, and I'm honestly a bit weirded out by how people are suddenly talking like they have never been here and like people who are protesting want every random thing under the sun allowed.

Like, there are different levels. Some clearly don't fit the theme, and I don't want mundane AUs to become a thing here, but the stories about brain damage and whatnot that has been a part of the comm before? I'd be sad to see stuff like that go away.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. I've always assumed that dirtybadwrong includes non-consensual body mod and medkink stuff, and can probably call up a number of fills along those lines. That said, I fully support the trashmod for enforcing a strict interpretation of trashmeme rules here instead of getting into a protracted discussion of what is and isn't HTP.

The sex-optional mcu_trash HTP thread is here: https://mcu-trash.dreamwidth.org/1167.html I plan to keep an eye on it, though I'm still undecided whether I'd put any of the fills from there up on trashmemeupdates.

Thank you for maintaining order, trashmod!

(frozen comment)

[trashmod]

So we're all clear, that was an announcement, not a request for comment, and venting your spleen about being told to stop dragging the kinkmeme away from its stated topic has exactly zero chance of changing mod policy. But OK, you got it out of your system and we got a new, hopefully-active, darkfic-friendly kinkmeme out of it, so cool.

To those concerned that loosely-HTP-adjacent prompts that would've been fine in the first couple of dumpsters are getting frozen: In the context of persistent, high-volume, sometimes deliberate attempts to ditch or redefine the entire topic of the kinkmeme, some prompts that might've been OK as individual variations on an agreed-upon common theme become part of a larger wave of envelope-pushing. The fact that they aren't exempted from the pushback doesn't mean anything about earlier prompts along similar lines. It doesn't mean HTP-adjacent variations are banned forever going forward. It means they aren't sacrosanct while we've got a bunch of anons going "but does the Hydra Trash Party really have to go so hard on the noncon all the time?" and testing the limits of how much barely-related crap they can prompt.

To those concerned that hydratrashmeme is somehow self-harming by going so hard on the noncon all the time: I don't know or care whether there's a cause-and-effect relationship between the trashmeme's strictly niche subject matter and the fact that it's the last kinkmeme standing after the other MCU ones died off. It's a niche kinkmeme and will never be anything else. It will live and die as what it is, according to the eternal ebb and flow of fandom, and right now its problem is not lack of active participants.

Any further discussion belongs in the chatter post, not Dumpster 5. Please keep the gratuitous wank to a minimum and don't feed trolls who are only there to stir shit.