hydratrashmeme | Trash Party Dumpster #1

Trash Party Dumpster #1

(Will be continued in a Dumpster #2 post if by some unholy hell-miracle this post hits the 5000-comment limit.)

Filthy anon dumpster for sad hobos to fling moldy pizza crusts, raccoon eye makeup tips, and garbage about their sad trash kinks at each other.

AKA the Hydra Trash Party kinkmeme. One hundred percent Hydra Party Favor Bucky Barnes, Is It Sexy Violence Or Violent Sex?, and Bad Guys Do Bad Things To Your Faves: Winter Soldier Edition. BLANKET NON-CON/DUB-CON WARNING, not safe for work, not safe for life, not safe for anyone, read at your own risk ~~of becoming one of us~~.

Rules in brief: don't be a jerk except to fictional characters, warnings for particularly fucked-up garbage are nice but not required, thou shalt not judge the trashiness of thy neighbor's kinks unless thy neighbor is trying to pass off their rotting banana peels and half-eaten pizza crusts as a healthy romantic dinner for two, off-topic comments may be chucked out of the dumpster at management's discretion, management's discretion decrees that omegaverse, soulbond AUs, D/s-verse, non-superpowered AUs, etc. are off-topic.

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GO TO TOWN, TRASHBABIES.

Unholy hell-miracle achieved! Round 1 is closed; comments and fills in existing threads are still welcome, but all new prompts go to Round 2.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't think it's characterization exactly - tbh, most of the Trash Party stuff doesn't exactly work with my default if-we're-being-serious versions of the characters either - but because a world in which the Good Guys can rape someone "because he couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" and are still Good Guys is a world in which "because I couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" are a valid excuses for rape, and that is not the world the mod wants to inhabit in their time off. It's not a world I want to inhabit, either.

We want our trash to be made of rape fantasy, not rape culture. We can get rape apology plenty of other places. Thank you, trashmod - those prompts were making me unhappy but I didn't want to say anything.

Bingo. Thanks, you said it better than I could.

Gotcha. I think (hope!) I understand now. I'm not American and rape culture is not an issue that's discussed in my community (maybe it should be, though), but I see what you mean regarding rape fantasy vs. rape apology. I'd like to say that I'll welcome critique of any prompts/fills I've posted/will post in case I get it wrong, but since I'm anon that won't really work. I guess I can only encourage you to speak up any time you see something that crosses the line (in case I'm to blame; I'd appreciate the feedback).

Re. characterisation, though, I do think rape "because he couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" is out of character for the good guys, because they aren't rape apologists, obviously. As you said, they can't be and still be the good guys. And I'm personally not interested in characters which are that much out of character, which I guess means I'm not into dark!Avenger type fics. That's sort of what I was trying to get at in my last reply, I just didn't know how to phrase it better (English is not my first language, which sometimes shows). Thanks for educating me on this issue!

I'd like to say that I'll welcome critique of any prompts/fills I've posted/will post in case I get it wrong, but since I'm anon that won't really work. I guess I can only encourage you to speak up any time you see something that crosses the line (in case I'm to blame; I'd appreciate the feedback).

No need--the purpose of this thread wasn't to encourage people to go over each other's prompts with a fine-tooth comb, just a clarification that "good guys doing badwrong things (of their own volition)" isn't really Trash Party's flavor of noncon. The rest is all wrangling over the details of why and how.

*Whispers* I'm sorry.

No, it's fine! I'm trying to say that you don't have to be sorry or beat yourself up just because this discussion of the Zen of Garbage turned into a discussion about rape culture.

Rape culture anon says: No, it's okay! To be honest "also it's out of character" was my first thought too, but then I thought about it some more, and let's be real, I had zero shame about prompting Bucky having an underwater cuddle party with tentacle monsters, I'm not really in the trashcan for realism (and actually I personally would be all about Bucky somehow getting zapped into an alternate universe where Steve is evil and then crying a lot.)

The reason those prompts make me uncomfortable is that, whether the prompter thinks so or not, there are a fair number of people in the real world who don't think it's particularly OOC for a "good guy" to do that kind of shit. :/

But, well, the way I see it, Mirror-universe!Steve wouldn't actually be out of character? I realise such a prompt would fall outside what this kinkmeme's rules permit, but I mean, it's not actually Steve, it's an AU version of him who's entirely in character as a dark!Avenger. An AU where HYDRA are Good Guys infiltrating the terrorist organisation SHIELD. It'd actually be a pretty interesting story, now that I think about it. So I wouldn't be opposed to something like that (but posted somewhere else, of course).

I understand what you're saying, though. I've had this discussion before in another fandom - there's a difference between prompting/writing non-con that acknowledges itself as fucked up (the characters themselves commenting on it or the use of an unreliable narrator - think Nabokov's Lolita) and non-con where the Good Guys don't bat an eye at what they're doing and the narrator/author is A-OK with it. I don't personally find the latter triggering, but I realise it might easily be to some folks, and it's certainly sloppy writing.

So I'm absolutely fine with Trashmod putting down their foot about dark!Avenger fics, I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly - it seems I did, even if my approach was from a writing-technical point of view rather than rape culture (which I need to read up on), and I'll keep following my gut feeling on these matters. Thanks for sharing your insights!

I honestly don't see how you can make a case that "oh this rape fantasy fic is less bad than this one because the rapist is clearly a bad guy and this is a highly unrealistic situation!"
I think everyone who is posting and reading in this kinkmeme is mature enough to recognize that anyone who gives excuses like "I couldn't help myself" is really just as horrible as someone who raped someone else specifically to cause them pain and trama.

I can understand that people are uncomfortable with prompts like that and honestly I am not a fan of them at all either. But for others that's their thing and to be fair, when trash mod started this kinkmeme they were not exactly specific with what kind of dubcon/noncon was allowed.

Trash mod can allow or deny prompts at their own discretion. I just wanted to voice my opinion that I honestly don't see the serious issue people are having with these kinds of prompts.

I think everyone who is posting and reading in this kinkmeme is mature enough to recognize that anyone who gives excuses like "I couldn't help myself" is really just as horrible as someone who raped someone else specifically to cause them pain and trama.

You'd be surprised. You really, really would. *hollow laughter*

In any case--I realize that kind of stuff is an integral part of some people's rape fantasies. I'm not saying it's bad or that it's impossible to pull it off with the lines between fantasy and reality intact, I'm saying that as far as I've seen, Trash Party shenanigans on Tumblr/AO3 have always taken a... rather more straightforward approach to noncon kink and I'd like to keep it that way on this meme.

Oh, please. If you are making a rape prompt about any character you're still contributing to rape culture. Real world rapists aren't some predetermined "bad guys" that are recognizable from a first glance.

What you are doing is nothing but kinkshaming on a fucking kinkmeme focused on noncon prompts. That's just pure hypocrisy. The whole concept is hypocritical.

There are no obviously Good Guys and obviously Bad Guys in the real world. You can't tell whether someone is a rapist or not just by looking at them and talking to them. You can talk to a Steve Rogers and think he's a wonderful, stand up guy, and he can still be a rapist and you wouldn't know. Him saying that he can't help himself is not rape apologism, it's HIS fucked up rapist mentality that is the whole point of these prompts. A responsible, educated filler would make this abundantly clear to the reader. A responsible, educated READER would've understood that the prompt reflects the reality of rapist mentality, rather than excusing it, and wouldn't have accused a rape victim of rape apologism.

[new anon]

A responsible, educated READER would've understood that the prompt reflects the reality of rapist mentality, rather than excusing it

please don't make the ambiguity of your own prompts the fault of the readers, there are WAY too many people that legitimately think like that to just give the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best. We are not mind readers, those prompts made several people uncomfortable, they weren't as clear as they could have been

My prompts are not ambigious to anyone with basic education about how rape culture works and a basic understanding how kinkmemes work. If your thought process makes you interpret the prompt as "This excuses rape culture" rather than "This is how rapists think and it's my responsibility to make that obvious in a fill" then the problem is in YOU, period. It's not my responsibility to educate you and correct YOUR fucked up way of thinking and interpreting perfectly acceptable prompts for they don't require mind reading, they just need some basic logic and understanding which you should be capable of to begin with.

You're right. Your prompt was not ambiguous.

"he tries his best not to give in for a long time, but at the end he just cannot control himself any more and takes control over Bucky completely"

"He's too much of a temptation for the lot of them and they take up the tradition"

Clearly, the prompt says Bucky is to blame for Steve's and the Avengers' behaviour for providing too much "temptation" for the Avengers and making it so Steve "cannot control himself".

You were very clear and now you are blaming readers for NOT going out of their way to twist your words into something that doesn't blame the victim.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Trash Party Dumpster #1

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