hydratrashmeme | Chatter post

Chatter post

For all your discussion needs.

Ground rules:
- Try to keep it loosely trash party related, or at least Cap fandom related.
- Disagreement is fine, nastiness is not.
- Being offended is not carte blanche for nastiness.
- Trashmeme ground rules apply. Read at your own risk, no romanticizing your noncon garbage, no wank about the moral acceptability of noncon kink.
- Body shots, sniper shots, and tetanus shots are all available at the open bar. Party like it's 2014, kids.

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It's all a question of who the meme meme wants to cater to-- I wish that both factions were equally welcome regardless of the volume of content from either or how popular that content was. But, like you, I think the new meme is a good solution, and helpful for those of us who want both traditional and less-traditional prompts/fills.

Also, thanks for wording this so considerately.

AYART

I am trying to keep my own posts at least considerate! There's been enough wank the last few days. If nothing else, at least I can hope not to add any more nastiness.

My point was that the meme should have no obligation to cater to certain themes based on popularity, or even on those themes having lacked a meme of their own before the new one went up. I've been in fandoms before where popular new ideas overwhelmed other things, and it can get very frustrating when you go looking for a particular flavor of fic and find it drowned in things you don't care for. It might not register much if the majority of themes are what you're looking for, to stumble occasionally over a rock in the path in the form of something out of place, even if it's a very popular rock. However, once the path becomes more rocks than path, everything that looks even remotely like a rock might get rather over efficiently cleared out. It might be annoying for the rock collectors, who were previously happily stopping to admire every rock on their way down the path, but it doesn't feel, to me, like the sort of move that warrants as much shock as I've been seeing.

With you on that front. Too many people took things too far.

Yeah, it's the "Slash Fiction is Like a Banquet" thing. When popular things overwhelm there's less variety, but the demand is clearly there, so where to strike the balance? Especially when both kinds of content have been there since the beginning.

Has anyone actually said they want a change to include whatever is popular, though? What we have been pointing out is that there are prompts and fills that have been allowed in the past that we'd like to keep, so it's confusing when the stance is suddenly changed. Especially when the change isn't reflected in updated rules/guidelines.

I did see a couple of people making statements along the lines of the meme will surely die! if it doesn't grow and change to accommodate what more people want these days. The flip side of that is that, if keeping the meme alive requires allowing the focus and majority of prompts to shift towards something Trashmod doesn't care for, are they obligated to keep the meme they created alive for the sake of other people's interest? My feeling was no, they aren't. If it's more important to Trashmod to keep the meme focused on sexual violence than to keep it alive, then that seems perfectly fair to me. Especially when Trashmod was perfectly happy to link to any other kinkmemes other people wanted to create to cater to other things.

Keeping the focus on sexual violence was clear to me from Trashmod's more recent posts. I can admit that just because I can't see how it was confusing doesn't mean it wasn't confusing for other people, but at some point continuing to grumble about it starts to seem a bit pointless.

From what I saw it was one person speculating there might be less activity, but neither of those are the same thing as "let's change meme".

I don't see why it's hard to understand that some are annoyed/confused/whatever at a part of meme they enjoyed not being allowed anymore.

You're right; either way, the new meme settles things (It's accepting prompts now and there's a fill up already, if anyone is interested).

That's what I hope!

I'd put down money that the meme's niche focus is why it's the only MCU kinkmeme that's lasted this long.

A couple of the more wankbaity anons in the other thread were claiming the HTP meme is ~dying~ and we need to ~broaden our horizons~ (presumably towards the fic they wish we'd write for them) if we're to have any hope of surviving. But if anything, it's the opposite. Our problem isn't not enough activity--we've got regular participants and a small but active core of fills. It's the relevant activity getting
swamped in dubiously-related prompts from people who don't know or care what we're here for. Who knows where they're coming in from, but "the demise of all the other Marvel kinkmemes" seems like a plausible starting guess.

The idea being, I suppose, that it's now our patriotic duty to lube up and let the wankbait anons turn this meme into Avengerkink-but-with-Bucky's-name-substituted-for-Tony's. More than that, it's the only way to keep our meme alive!

It worked so well for Avengerkink, after all.

This. Thank you anon. This is what I've been screaming about. Let anyone that doesn't like our HTP dirty and badwrong in sexual ways post in the other thread.

Keep us moving forward in our own slow slug crawl. The trash I want is right here.

NA: Ditto this. I'm gonna try to restrain myself from sniping at rude folks anymore and focus on filling a prompt instead.

My hero.

And the entire point for a lot of people was that you need to be clearer about what "dirty and badwrong" means since it's pretty subjective. I've been here for years and enjoyed fills that didn't include rape but were still seen as "dirty and badwrong" then, and things can be sexual without being full on rape.

We like the dirty and badwrong. That's why we're HERE. It's not just a bunch of new people that don't like non-con. We've been here all along, reading and enjoying the same fic. We just also happen to want things like sexualized torture, too, which we previously could get here.

Maybe this would be a lot easier if the comm stopped using juvenile terms like dirty badwrong and outright used "non-con and non-con only" in the rules if that's what it's gonna be about.

Ya exactly. Also, as someone who has posted a not-explicitly-sexual prompt, it's not that I dislike like non con. If someone dislikes non con, I don't imagine them spending more than 5 seconds here, much less posting a prompt.

People request not strictly sexual prompts because

1.dirtybadwrong/trash/filth is a very broad term and can be interpreted both sexually and not

2. There is plenty of other things that can be non-con, not just sex (body modification, medical procedures etc)

3. there is more to writing Hydra/bucky r rated content than just rape scenes. There's things happening before and after, things that are implied. Things that make for an exciting read because they talk about the circumstances, which are more flexible and allow for a range of interpetations, rather than just offer straight up 'there was dick in ass, it felt bad' (which is a fun read in its own right of course, but sometimes u wanna go beyond that, u Kno?)

I get what you're saying, but most of the recent drama wasn't about trying to turn the meme into anything--it was hashing out what is or isn't on topic, which clearly both sides needed to see done. Anyway, the new meme is up and accepting prompts now, so hopefully things will settle.

It seemed like most of the people involved in the drama had earnest points to make about what they wanted out of the community, but there were a couple nasty pieces of work shitting all over the trashmeme and claiming they were trying to change it, but only for our own good.

If those anons had any constructive ideas whatsoever on what they did want out of a kinkmeme, they hid them well, so I'm just going to amuse myself by imagining that the actual content behind their trolling was "super butthurt that we aren't Avengerkink."

Yes. Yes. It is part of why I am glad they have two sandboxes. One for mcu general trash and one for HTP nonsexy stuff.

Hell the free for all even allows for bad good guys so prompts on the edge of that can just go there instead of the morality debates we get on and off here.

Yes-I was on the "inclusionist" side (now that the new meme is up and running that's settled as far as I'm concerned) but I was thinking "You guys (I think it was just a couple people who I didn't want to get into it with) aren't helping anything by telling people their meme is dying, making anyone who wants to see both noncon and noncon-optional stuff look like wankers, and making the new meme look less appealing".

Yeah, me too. I think both sides said bad things but ultimately, offending the trashmod and the other people who were worried about the dumpster was entirely uncalled for.

that's a really good way of putting it. personally, i've always been here for the sexual trash. there have maybe been the odd time when there was a prompt+fill that was more borderline that tickled my fancy, but largely i've always been here for the namesake premise (i.e. the hydra trash party). sure, there's been plenty of stuff that dealt with things like abundant gore and non-sexual medical experimentation and whatnot, but it never overwhelmed the thematic origin of the meme and often there were significant sexual abuse issues mixed in. so when i started catching up with the recent prompts and got to the problematic/frozen ones i was legit thinking to myself "omg what the actual heck is happening."

to be fair, maybe it's just because these kinks are not my kinks and i've never been the one to look for them in HTP, but i felt like the mod's crackdown was pretty understandable given the context. unfortunately things clearly got heated and wanky, which is a shame because it seems like this was a good and important discussion to have in theory (i.e. clearing up confusion about the rules), but it seems to keep devolving into a wankfest. i'm sorry if people who dig the extreme unsexy body horror stuff felt like they were being told there's absolutely no place for them here, but at the same time i'm honestly relieved about the mod pushback because i'd hate to see this place overtaken by so many rocks, to borrow the analogy. hopefully the new meme can provide a kickass space for everyone to get their gore on so between the two memes everyone's interests will be met. :)

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Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea

Re: Popularity of an Idea =/= On Topic-ness of the Idea