hydratrashmeme | Dumpster #3: The Great Pacific Garbage Patch

Dumpster #3: The Great Pacific Garbage Patch

Holy shitballs, look at us go. Welcome to Captain America fandom's resident wretched hive of scum and villainy: ROUND THREE. AKA Bad Guys Do Dirtybadwrong Things To Your Faves, AKA the Hydra Trash Party kinkmeme. As usual, BLANKET NON-CON AND NSFW WARNINGS apply: just assume going in that everything in this landfill is unfit for human consumption.

Rules in brief: don't be a jerk except to fictional characters, warnings for particularly fucked-up garbage are nice but not required, thou shalt not judge the trashiness of thy neighbor's kinks unless thy neighbor is trying to pass off their rotting banana peels and half-eaten pizza crusts as a healthy romantic dinner for two, off-topic comments may be chucked out of the dumpster at management's discretion, management's discretion decrees that omegaverse, soulbond AUs, D/s-verse, non-superpowered AUs, and dark!good guys AUs are off-topic.

[Round 1] [Round 2] [Fill post] [Chatter post] [hydratrashmeme Pinboard archive (maintained by

greenkirtle)] [Round 3 in flat view (comments in non-threaded chronological order, most recent last)]

Round 3 is closed; comments and fills in existing threads are still welcome, but all new prompts go to Round 4.

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Nayrt

Hey there nonnie, I understand where you are coming from, but I think something to remember is that a big part of the original prompt is that Bucky is to all appearances perfectly recovered in this. The point of the prompt was that Bucky absolutely seems to be fine with everything, and it is a hell of a shock and horror to Steve and Sam to realise the truth, that it was never really consensual. The prompt required they had no idea anything was wrong.

The problem with me here is that it is written in the rules not to call something abusive and harming as nice, healthy or romantic.
And here we are, with Sam, where I call out that character was written borderline with actual predator, but apparently I shoudn't upset author and initiate any discussion of characters which upsets me because it still very triggering and scary and I'm not even talking about prompt points, I'm talking about writing on particular character and believe me I can retel the problematic stuff without using promt at all and it still will be terrible.
Like imagine that girl being in relationship with a nice guy, she fully aware that he was in terrible space just before they met and started dating but still loves him and thinks he's great and sex is amazing for a few month, then it turns out that he wasn't really into sex at all and did it mostly just so she wouldn't leave him.
And that IS terrible. But it doesn't justify girl breaking with him that exact second and severing all contacts justifying that it was terrible of him and she's not ready to see the person she supposedly loves.
Well, it all nice, but why thee said girl never for a secon thought of her partner and how was he feeling at that moment? And never bothered to apologise or (god forbid) to check that he had someone to look after him while she deals with her own issues? Was the said person resposible at all? Was it mature? Wasn't it extremely damaging to her partner? Was she thinking about him for a second or thinking about only her own safety and comfort? Is it really a healthy attitude?
What happens if the said girl also had a psycology training?
I'm starting to think that it was intentional here.

Yes, it is healthy to look after your own mental health. People, even with psychology training, are human, and mistakes happen. Is it the perfect textbook response? No. Is it abusive to walk away from a relationship you are extremely uncomfortable with? No.

This s is the awful fallout of what has happened to Sam as much as to Bucky. In his situation I'd be vomiting and hating myself, and no I couldn't stand to be with that person. he's just discovered he's unknowingly violated the most important thing - consent. And he can't cope and reacts like a human being. Yes, his own mental health should be his priority. You can help other people, but only you are responsible for your own. And if he can't think straight, what use woukd he be. Put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.

DA

I want to point out that it's important to keep in mind that in a relationship, one person can hurt another--or two people can hurt each other--without anyone involved being abusive or a predator.

Both of those words speak to the intent of the person doing the harming: a callous disregard to the harm caused by selfish actions, or an active intention to cause harm. It is completely possible for people acting in good faith, with good intentions, to hurt each other physically, emotionally, psychologically--as Sam hurts Bucky in this story, and as Bucky also hurts Sam by lying to him about his consent and by refusing to leave him alone when Sam repeatedly asks him to.

Neither one of them intended to hurt the other, and neither is careless about the hurt he has caused. Neither one's hurt cancels out the other's. There is no special immunity granted by being hurt first or worst.

Sam still does not fully understand the depth of hurt he's caused, but he's not required to. He is also hurt, and he is trying to protect himself, which is absolutely his right and absolutely the healthy thing to do. It may not be kind, or fun, or ideal, but no one is required to be any of those things, and not being kind or fun or ideal is not the same as being abusive or predatory.

People hurt each other by mistake sometimes. People hurt each other accidentally. People hurt each other because they're not fully aware of the consequences of their actions until it's too late. And while that doesn't change the fact that they caused the hurt, it does mean that they are not responsible for the consequences in the way they would be if they were acting with bad intent.

In real life, it can be hard to distinguish between someone who genuinely made a mistake and someone who uses "I didn't mean to" as an excuse when they are in fact an abuser or predator, but the distinction still does exist. And in fiction, it actually is possible to know for sure where a character falls; in this story, Sam and Bucky (and Steve) are all clearly depicted as acting in good faith and hurting each other by accident.

This is wise and good.

I have a few points to make.

1. Predatory behavior. As someone else pointed out, the list you posted is just some things predators do, and it's meaningless outside the context of other predatory behaviors. Here's a better sampling from the grab bag of tricks that abusers use to hurt and control people. Does Sam belittle and demean Bucky? Does he seek to destroy Bucky's self-esteem? Bucky came into the relationship vulnerable, but does Sam try to make him more vulnerable by distancing him from his support network? Does Sam ignore Bucky's consent? Does he create a power imbalance where Bucky has to kowtow to him? Does he ignore Bucky's personhood in favor of forcing him to be an object or a servant?

The answer to all these questions is no, no, no. Sam tries to support Bucky to be healthier, happier, and less vulnerable. He supports Bucky's therapy and independent life, as seen in his law school attendance and his apartment. The one time Bucky did something that could be construed as displeasure with the sex (breaking Steve's grip on him), both Sam and Steve stopped immediately, and they only resumed at Bucky's urging.

Also, this is fiction. In real life, you can never really know what someone's motives are. In this story, we can say with absolute 100% certainty, given the bounds of the prompt and the author's explanations, that Sam is a well-intentioned guy who wants to love and support Bucky, and that he genuinely believed he had Bucky's full consent.

Finally, what you're saying about Sam not even making sure Bucky had support before he withdrew is totally untrue. It's right in the last update that Steve told Sam that Bucky was getting the help he needed. Indeed, Bucky promised Steve he would tell his therapist, and that he would stop sleeping with people. If anything, blame Steve for thinking it was that simple, not Sam for believing Steve was taking care of Bucky when Sam couldn't. As many others have said, Sam believed Bucky was getting help, and he knew he couldn't help, because he was too upset. So he decided to take some time to calm down so that he could support Bucky later. This is actually the most helpful and responsible thing he could possibly have done.

2. The rules do say not to romanticize garbage. Here is what that means:

DISALLOWED FIC: Person A has been raping and abusing Person B. But that's fine! This is so beautiful and romantic! uwu

That's not what's happening here.

THIS FIC: Steve and Sam have accidentally been raping and abusing Bucky, because Bucky has been performing consent so well they had no idea he didn't like it. Wow, that's really fucked up.

This fic's brave, complicated examination of all the fallout among these three flawed people is the exact opposite of romanticizing abuse.

3. Triggers. Look, anon, this isn't tumblr. This is a choose-not-to-warn, enter-at-your-own-risk, triggerific experience. Even aside from the abundant rape, the trash meme commonly features emotional, verbal, sexual, and physical abuse, systematic dehumanization, torture, sexual torture, surgical torture, non-consensual body modification, medical experimentation, forced infantilization, brainwashing, victim-blaming, rape tape scandals, Nazi kink, homophobia, eating disorders, drug abuse, STDs, and this is just off the top of my head.

This is Trigger Central Station.

When you come into this kinkmeme, you accept that you are going to see content you find disgusting, objectionable, offensive, and yes, triggering. And when you come across that stuff, you do what everyone does: let it be. Because if we were tossing out triggering stuff, we'd have to burn the whole dumpster. Because the person who writes something that triggers you today might fill your prompt tomorrow. Because we can't create rules for the whole meme based around what you, personally, a single anon, don't like to see.

So yes, when you encounter something that you find triggering and scary, you are not supposed to attack it. You are supposed to ignore it. Like everyone here ignores what they don't want to read. The author isn't responsible for designing stories according to your taste. You, however, are responsible for accepting that this is a place where anything goes, and not insulting the stories and authors you don't like in their own threads. This is why I find your behavior here extremely inappropriate and in violation of common meme courtesy.

Exactly. Thank you anon for saying so perfectly what I couldn't find words for.

That's a heck of a lot more coherent (and kind) than I was ever going to manage to be. Thanks.

yet another another anon here!

I think the issue here is that Sam is indeed behaving less-than-perfectly. Am I frustrated that Sam's response has been to cut himself off from Steve and Bucky? Yes. Do I think that's selfish of him and ultimately damaging to everyone involved? Yes.

But do I think it is a natural, human response? Yes. Especially given the limited information that Sam has:
(a) Steve had gotten James' assurance that he won't be sleeping with anyone else, so Sam assumes that James is safe in that regard.
(b) Steve has told Sam that basically the relationship that they thought was consensual was basically not, and Sam needs to wrap his head around all of his assumptions about James.
(c) James himself tells Sam that he only feels pain and fear when being with Sam.
One thing that I've been enjoying about this fic is that no one is perfect -- Sam, Steve, and James all have communication issues and their conversations are heartbreakingly at cross-purposes. And given the above, I think it's perfectly reasonable for Sam to say "hey, I need a week or two to myself." And to have Sam singled out as an abuser is somewhat odd because it implies that Sam is expected to be the perfect good guy with the therapist training who always puts others' needs in front of himself. And I don't know about you, but when my relationships are going through rough times, it's *really* hard to be professional. I just don't have headspace to deal with both. That's where I see Sam as being. Is it frustrating? Yes. But it's also human.

Also, to the point of abusers and it seeming like we're defending an abuser -- I'd like to point out the other character in this story who is an actual abuser -- Daniel. He's in a separate relationship with a girl and doesn't tell her about James. He starts out as a friend/acquaintance. After he realizes that James is messed-up about sex, he doesn't stop -- he just becomes more cruel and manipulative. He is arrogant and self-absorbed. He objectifies James and uses him without any concern for James' well-being, but I'm sure in class he pretends they're friends. If you pointed to Daniel and said he's sexually abusive, I for one would be like "heck yeah he's creepy as fuck." And comparing the difference between Daniel and Sam/Steve is the difference between bad people being intentionally evil and good people making mistakes. Sam and Steve make their decisions out of caring for James. Imagine if James showed up to Sam's place to beg Sam to take Steve back, and Sam said, "Okay, but only if you secretly fuck me on the side." *That* would be evil. Instead, Sam's like "I need some time to myself, please respect that." Does it harm James? Definitely. Is it evil/abusive? No.

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Dumpster #3: The Great Pacific Garbage Patch

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