hydratrashmeme | Trash Party Dumpster #1

Trash Party Dumpster #1

(Will be continued in a Dumpster #2 post if by some unholy hell-miracle this post hits the 5000-comment limit.)

Filthy anon dumpster for sad hobos to fling moldy pizza crusts, raccoon eye makeup tips, and garbage about their sad trash kinks at each other.

AKA the Hydra Trash Party kinkmeme. One hundred percent Hydra Party Favor Bucky Barnes, Is It Sexy Violence Or Violent Sex?, and Bad Guys Do Bad Things To Your Faves: Winter Soldier Edition. BLANKET NON-CON/DUB-CON WARNING, not safe for work, not safe for life, not safe for anyone, read at your own risk ~~of becoming one of us~~.

Rules in brief: don't be a jerk except to fictional characters, warnings for particularly fucked-up garbage are nice but not required, thou shalt not judge the trashiness of thy neighbor's kinks unless thy neighbor is trying to pass off their rotting banana peels and half-eaten pizza crusts as a healthy romantic dinner for two, off-topic comments may be chucked out of the dumpster at management's discretion, management's discretion decrees that omegaverse, soulbond AUs, D/s-verse, non-superpowered AUs, etc. are off-topic.

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GO TO TOWN, TRASHBABIES.

Unholy hell-miracle achieved! Round 1 is closed; comments and fills in existing threads are still welcome, but all new prompts go to Round 2.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Dubcon and general fucked-up violent Winter Soldier shit is fine; there is no Minimum Noncon Threshold to ride this ride, and for example the Steve/Bucky recovery/gallows-humor prompt on page 1 is fine. The lower limit on trashiness is flexible and for the moment it is basically set at "oh come on that's not even a little bit wicked."

The thing I emphatically DO NOT WANT in this dumpster is romanticized dubcon or, uh, prompts that are way less consensual than the prompter seems aware of, so the question is less "how much agency is Bucky showing?" and more "are you trying to use this show of agency to somehow nullify the inherent skeeve of the situation?" / "is anyone supposed to find this kinda sweet and romantic except for Rumlow in his own little twisted trash mind?" / "are you seriously trying to tell us this garbage is even remotely excusable?"

AYRT

Got it. Skeeviness away!

So, what is the consensus then? How should anon prompters tag stuff like this? Or should it just not be prompted at all?

dark!Avengers taking advantage of Bucky and similar prompts = off-topic unless someone wants to convince

trashmod otherwise, which nobody seems inclined to do so far.

To be perfectly honest with you, trashmod, that's just too limiting. I was left with the impression that this kinkmeme is about prompts related to the abuse Bucky suffered in HYDRA's hands. Dark!Steve and Dark!Avengers are definitely related to that as far as I am concerned. If they're not allowed, this meme is just far too limited for me and I am no longer interested. Oh, well, can't be helped. Have fun. I certainly am not.

Don't mean to snark, but "convincing argument towards Dark!Good guys" =/= throwing a tantrum because your personal kink is not being hit.

You are snarking. No need to be hypocritical about it. And that's not a personal kink, it's just something that makes no sense to me whatsoever, so I am saying it the way I see it. *shrug*

I think it might be a question of characterisation, really. As I understand it, our dear Trashmod isn't saying we can't write any good-guys-on-Bucky abuse ever, just that it has to be at least somewhat canon-compliant. You can write plenty of prompts where Steve abuses Bucky - brain-washed!Steve, sex-pollen!Steve (already done), unaware-of-consent-issues!Steve, HYDRA-goon-impersonating-Steve, HYDRA-made-me-do-it-or-they'd-kill-Bucky!Steve, etc. It's just fairly certain that Steve as he is in the canon wouldn't look at post-WS Bucky and think, hey, I'll strap my best friend to a chair, rape him, and go on my merry way without feeling the slightest bit of guilt.

Personally, I think the fun part of writing fanfic is finding all the tiny cracks in a character's personality and exploiting them for evil sexytime purposes, not strapping a cardboard cut-out Steve mask over the face of some anonymous evil-bad goon to abuse an equally oatmeal-bland Bucky. The Steve who'd rape his best friend for fun is not the Steve I want to read about. (The Steve who'd rape his best friend because he believes it's the only way to save his life, and then angsts suicidally about it after, now that's a Steve I'd like to know better!)

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretation of your rules, dear Trashmod? And thank you for this kinkmeme and the hard work (hurh!) you're putting into it. <3

Canon compliance? On a kinkmeme? Come on, be serious. That's ridiculous.

Why?

I don't think it's characterization exactly - tbh, most of the Trash Party stuff doesn't exactly work with my default if-we're-being-serious versions of the characters either - but because a world in which the Good Guys can rape someone "because he couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" and are still Good Guys is a world in which "because I couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" are a valid excuses for rape, and that is not the world the mod wants to inhabit in their time off. It's not a world I want to inhabit, either.

We want our trash to be made of rape fantasy, not rape culture. We can get rape apology plenty of other places. Thank you, trashmod - those prompts were making me unhappy but I didn't want to say anything.

Bingo. Thanks, you said it better than I could.

Gotcha. I think (hope!) I understand now. I'm not American and rape culture is not an issue that's discussed in my community (maybe it should be, though), but I see what you mean regarding rape fantasy vs. rape apology. I'd like to say that I'll welcome critique of any prompts/fills I've posted/will post in case I get it wrong, but since I'm anon that won't really work. I guess I can only encourage you to speak up any time you see something that crosses the line (in case I'm to blame; I'd appreciate the feedback).

Re. characterisation, though, I do think rape "because he couldn't help it" or "because he was just so tempting" is out of character for the good guys, because they aren't rape apologists, obviously. As you said, they can't be and still be the good guys. And I'm personally not interested in characters which are that much out of character, which I guess means I'm not into dark!Avenger type fics. That's sort of what I was trying to get at in my last reply, I just didn't know how to phrase it better (English is not my first language, which sometimes shows). Thanks for educating me on this issue!

I'd like to say that I'll welcome critique of any prompts/fills I've posted/will post in case I get it wrong, but since I'm anon that won't really work. I guess I can only encourage you to speak up any time you see something that crosses the line (in case I'm to blame; I'd appreciate the feedback).

No need--the purpose of this thread wasn't to encourage people to go over each other's prompts with a fine-tooth comb, just a clarification that "good guys doing badwrong things (of their own volition)" isn't really Trash Party's flavor of noncon. The rest is all wrangling over the details of why and how.

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-22 23:12 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

trashmod - 2014-06-22 23:15 (UTC) - Expand

Rape culture anon says: No, it's okay! To be honest "also it's out of character" was my first thought too, but then I thought about it some more, and let's be real, I had zero shame about prompting Bucky having an underwater cuddle party with tentacle monsters, I'm not really in the trashcan for realism (and actually I personally would be all about Bucky somehow getting zapped into an alternate universe where Steve is evil and then crying a lot.)

The reason those prompts make me uncomfortable is that, whether the prompter thinks so or not, there are a fair number of people in the real world who don't think it's particularly OOC for a "good guy" to do that kind of shit. :/

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 06:53 (UTC) - Expand

I honestly don't see how you can make a case that "oh this rape fantasy fic is less bad than this one because the rapist is clearly a bad guy and this is a highly unrealistic situation!"
I think everyone who is posting and reading in this kinkmeme is mature enough to recognize that anyone who gives excuses like "I couldn't help myself" is really just as horrible as someone who raped someone else specifically to cause them pain and trama.

I can understand that people are uncomfortable with prompts like that and honestly I am not a fan of them at all either. But for others that's their thing and to be fair, when trash mod started this kinkmeme they were not exactly specific with what kind of dubcon/noncon was allowed.

Trash mod can allow or deny prompts at their own discretion. I just wanted to voice my opinion that I honestly don't see the serious issue people are having with these kinds of prompts.

I think everyone who is posting and reading in this kinkmeme is mature enough to recognize that anyone who gives excuses like "I couldn't help myself" is really just as horrible as someone who raped someone else specifically to cause them pain and trama.

You'd be surprised. You really, really would. *hollow laughter*

In any case--I realize that kind of stuff is an integral part of some people's rape fantasies. I'm not saying it's bad or that it's impossible to pull it off with the lines between fantasy and reality intact, I'm saying that as far as I've seen, Trash Party shenanigans on Tumblr/AO3 have always taken a... rather more straightforward approach to noncon kink and I'd like to keep it that way on this meme.

Oh, please. If you are making a rape prompt about any character you're still contributing to rape culture. Real world rapists aren't some predetermined "bad guys" that are recognizable from a first glance.

What you are doing is nothing but kinkshaming on a fucking kinkmeme focused on noncon prompts. That's just pure hypocrisy. The whole concept is hypocritical.

There are no obviously Good Guys and obviously Bad Guys in the real world. You can't tell whether someone is a rapist or not just by looking at them and talking to them. You can talk to a Steve Rogers and think he's a wonderful, stand up guy, and he can still be a rapist and you wouldn't know. Him saying that he can't help himself is not rape apologism, it's HIS fucked up rapist mentality that is the whole point of these prompts. A responsible, educated filler would make this abundantly clear to the reader. A responsible, educated READER would've understood that the prompt reflects the reality of rapist mentality, rather than excusing it, and wouldn't have accused a rape victim of rape apologism.

[new anon]

A responsible, educated READER would've understood that the prompt reflects the reality of rapist mentality, rather than excusing it

please don't make the ambiguity of your own prompts the fault of the readers, there are WAY too many people that legitimately think like that to just give the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best. We are not mind readers, those prompts made several people uncomfortable, they weren't as clear as they could have been

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 14:57 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 16:18 (UTC) - Expand

The mod has been nothing but reasonable. If you want prompts for dark!Avengers, then ask the mod (the mod seems prepared to be convinced), or prompt on one of the three other memes (that I know of). I have prompted on and regularly check on more than one.

Why the dramatic post?

I'm not sure what you're going for, here. If you want to convince me to change my mind, convince me. If you're no longer interested, flounce and be done with it, don't hang around in the doorway just to drip judgement all over the floor like a wet cat.

I have no intention of just flouncing away, because your ignorant, hypocritcal approach towards rape culture and prompting on your own noncon-focused kinkmeme offends me as a rape victim. In the real world rapists aren't a bunch of obvious predetermined douchebags that are noticeable from a first glance. They are Steve Rogerses and Tony Starks, or you at least think they are the people they appear to be. That's the bitter reality of it. Saying that they "couldn't help themselves" is THEIR reasoning. That's not rape apologism, as some people here have accused me of (oh, the fucking irony), that's prompting BASED ON RAPIST MENTALITY IN REAL LIFE. It's untrue that they can't, and the sheer fucked upness comes exactly from that fact.

Indeed, I am no longer interested in your kinkmeme. I have no intention of prompting or reading anything in it. I cannot and will not, as a rape victim, notice such blithering and offensive ignorance and hypocrisy regarding rape culture and say nothing. So I will fucking judge you as much as I want and tell you exactly what I think about you and your so-called kinkmeme. Suck it up, educate yourself and deal with it.

So are you flouncing or not flouncing?

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 10:30 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 10:46 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 13:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 14:22 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 14:51 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-23 14:59 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Clarification re: off-topic

trashmod - 2014-06-23 17:24 (UTC) - Expand

Sorry, everyone, this all went down when I wasn't at the computer. This thread should've been frozen ages ago.

I'm going to freeze it here so I can respond and say: dude, you're over the line.

trashmod is a survivor too, hon. You don't speak for all of us. In fact, I was raped by somebody who talked a great game about consent and rape culture and fell back on the old "I just couldn't control myself" chestnut anyway, so yes, I understand perfectly well what's going on here, and you're just going to have to deal with the fact that that hasn't led me to the same conclusions about what's on-topic for this meme as you. Yes, I have strong feelings about the subject and the fact that "everyone understands that people spouting that excuse for their actions are just as bad as any other rapist" is just not true. I've been trying to balance them with the need for fair modding, which includes the fact that this is not a normal kinkmeme, it's a Trash Party meme, which means judgement calls do need to be made about what does and doesn't fit here. I said, openly, that I'm not 100% solid on this judgement call and people are welcome to weigh in, and in fact some good arguments were made downthread for allowing mirrorverse/dark!AU prompts, but climbing so far up on your high horse that you can't even listen to what anyone else has to say and slinging insults from on high does not accomplish anything.

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